What we might learn if we keep our eyes open

[willowflat_warrior]

Great work on the ferrets!

The brown rats here are often the size of my forearm, weighing up to 500g. Some of them can be very difficult to trap. Winter after winter, they burrow under our deck, seeking shelter while they attempt to chew their way up to the pantry.

The smooth kill-bar on Victors and other snap-traps, allow some predators to pull or shake themselves free. To make these traps more humane and reduce escapes, you can drill nails or screws at the front of the trap to impale predators. Also, since I mounted down my snap-traps with screws, they’ve become both more humane, and they don’t get damaged, because predators can’t thrash around inside my tunnels.

Trying out a few T-Rex/Tomcat traps might be a good idea. Mine have killed at least one hundred large browns since I started trapping a few years ago, with only 1 dirty kill. I don’t know how the plastic will do when it’s exposed to saltwater, though.

If you can find it, I think that tallow (rendered fat) would be the perfect lure for your mudflat traps. In addition to the fact that saturated fat is very appealing to predators, tallow is hydrophobic, so water just beads off of it, making it perfect for wet environments. It doesn’t contain water, so it doesn’t go moldy, and it doesn’t rot. Blowflies and wasps ignore it, unlike flesh lures.

Tallow will go rancid, eventually, but I would be very surprised if it lasted long enough without being eaten for that to happen. Rancid tallow wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing, because predators investigate rancid fat to see if any good fat remains. Tallow is both cheap and can last for up to a year in the fridge.

Unfortunately, ants and cockroaches are both fans of tallow, and there may be more that I’m not aware of. Because it’s greasy in warm/hot weather, it isn’t as easy for insects to eat tallow, at least. Some bird species may be attracted to tallow, but after 18 months using it 30 tunnels, I have yet to trap a bird with it.

Goodnature’s Meal Lovers’ Lure is another good option, because it’s long-lasting, water-resistant, and insects aren’t attracted to it (in my experience). The predators here love the stuff, and a sachet goes a long way, so it’s really economical.

The combination of tallow and Meat Lovers’ has been effective, because it signals that there’s a freshly killed, especially fatty animal to scavenge. Add a fake egg, and you’ve got yourself a very attractive trap.

Do you use DOC traps, too?
Good luck trapping those brown bastards.

Cheers.

[andy.saunders-admin]

@danbush

Dispatching possums caught in cage

Hi Wondering how others kill their catches when caught in cages -ie possums or feral cats. Wondering if we should invest in an air rifle? Thanks

[mindie]

Great info WFW – we have tried most lures available – brown, blue orange etc – just tried Kewpie mayo on advice from a S. Island mate who gets heaps of high country mustilids – but we only got a few rats around our patch – maybe because numbers are very low. I am also working my way through a bucket of PC Peanut Butter – has been good for sloshing plenty around possum traps. I sometimes have a summertime session using Connovation blue nut it goes mouldy in winter wet conditions. But we always go back to Goodnature cinnamon flavour possum paste – we use about 100 pouches each year.
But I just ordered six possum paste, three meat lovers and two chocolate pouches. Never used meat lovers and haver never had any luck with chocolate – but others want to try again.
I did a season on a line in a local reserve – they use T Rex in walk through bait stations – lots of breakages and I believe a soft kill trap. I had some at our reserve and gave up after lots of wounded rats.
We have 15 doc traps targeting hogs – 4 - 250s and 11 - 200s – just a few hogs around the boundary.
I only use a few Victor Pros around our street – but at the Park we use Kness Snap-e exclusively – the only one that the team will handle.

[mindie]

Who is this delicate feeder!
I left the rat behind the trap cover – he came back up the ramp and checked out the trap lure – one less weasel

[davidnblake36]

This ‘industry’ is full of anecdotes. This bait works with that, this trap works best for this pest, these ones never work, mount this trap this way, no - that way.

There seems to be very little actual science done. Which is understandable given the predator control is being done by volunteers and many many different environments up and down the country.

How could we move to a more scientific way of doing things I wonder? What I mean is, being able to say, for sure that one lure is better than another, or one trap is better than another, and so on.

[danbush]

Yes I agree, I raised this some months ago in In an ideal world. As it happens, I was giving the matter some thought today. I was thinking - subject to the permission of the site admin - of setting up a voluntary survey of site users. In that way we could perhaps get a semi-quantitative handle on the variety of methods, traps, lures etc. employed and their effectiveness. Along with ‘demographic’ and geographical information. As with other proposals I have made, I would need the support of others, in my experience peer review is vital before releasing any survey. Happy to hear the views of anyone who would like to be involved.

[davidnblake36]

I’d be keen on this. I’m part of a group here in West Auckland.

[mindie]

Hi Dan and Dave
I am not sure what could be done – if we are going to be predator free by 2050 – there is going to be a lot of science required. Maybe PFNZ may be able to access plenty of money.
I think that information sharing is the best we can do at this stage. We must all have stories to tell along with pictures that will help others to trap more effectively. I feel sorry for people that waste money on ineffective equipment and lures and struggle to catch the back yard predator.
I contribute to a bird predator control thread on the NZ Hunting and Shooting forum - Bird Predator Control - many trappers contribute and nearly 165,000 views so far – and climbing – not likely considered scientific – just practical work by people like me
I will try to continue this thread if people feel it is worth-while

[danbush]

Thanks “Mindie”, I think we are all trying to do what’s best here. I am certainly not criticising you personally, or anyone else on this site. What I am proposing is turning our rich and varied field observations and experiences into a more quantitative analysis. Everyone’s experiences are valid, however to makes these experiences transferable we need to put them into a framework. For example, how big is the trapping operation, where are the observations being made, what is the geography of the area and what is the vegetation type, what are the current pest numbers, and so on. It will certainly take a bit of thought and design, but I have used online surveys before, and am a retired research scientist (if that is relevant). I don’t think we can control for every dimension, you are correct, this would require a significant investment and time by scientists with the right expertise. Finally, we still need to hear peoples innovative, new ideas and approaches, because that is how new best practice emerges.

[danbush]

Thanks David, let’s see if others wish to participate. I will be in touch.

[maungatapu]

Hi Mindie, yes I agree we can learn a lot from using our eyes. We can also learn a lot from looking and analysing our own trapping statistics. I have had this discussion with Dan before, and it is very hard to put all this together into anything scientific. Science requires a hypothesis and then to test it with a well designed programme incorporating a control. Science needs to be done by a reputable group. Really requires a university type organisation to conduct this. Best we can do is lobby all these organisations.
However that doesn’t negate the value of sharing information on various baits, trapping techniques etc as we do on this forum. Also share our results. I sometimes read something that makes sense to me so I will give it a try, if it helps that’s great, if not it is added to a very full bin. Some good science would be excellent but I guess we have to do the best with what we have.
A bit more information about the people making observations on this forum would help assess the the particular value of these observations. There are people with several hundred traps covering large areas, some people are trapping their section with 6 traps.
That’s my 2 cents!
Pat

[mindie]

Slightly off topic – but may be useful for some – not scientific – just my experience -
There are lots of different snap traps in the market – so someone must be buying them. Most do the job, delivering dead or wounded animals – mice, rats, hogs, weasels, and stoats. Along with my trapping colleagues, I have tried most trap types - we either like them or hate them – perhaps determined by wounded animals or black thumb nails. Our team of seven trappers that look after around 200 traps around our local Park refuse to use anything but Kness Snap-E rat traps. They are user friendly, powerful, relatively humane and long lasting.

Big Snap-E® Cover | Pest Control Products | Kness Mfg

A couple of days ago, I spent three hours on a trap line of around 40 Snap-E rat traps and 10 possum traps – just a few trips but not a single victim. A few years ago, the Kness Snap-E traps suffered from broken triggers, but they seem to have resolved this now. The triggers are simple to replace in the field using a small pair of pliers.
I have used Victor Pro traps since I began trapping many years ago – a very powerful and long-lasting trap – I still have a few around my street trap line – they just keep on going.
The yellow traps seem to work well, but I often find them difficult to set.
The brown traps are very powerful but often difficult to set.
Chinese copies of the Kness Snap-E are hopeless.
The plastic Victor is a user-friendly alternative to the Victor Pro but not as powerful
I still operate 11 A24s – a subject that warrants a separate post.
Where to get the best price – Dead Rat NZ – but she doesn’t sell Kness Snap-E – so best go to Key Industries
I will put up some pictures that may tell a story -

[willowflat_warrior]

I’ve never had much luck with Goodnature’s chocolate or nut lures, but everything seems to like the Meat Lovers’. Every now and then, when the tunnels and traps are a bit quiet, I use some of the cinnamon lure, because it’s so different to normal lures.

Why aren’t my traps breaking like those ones are? I killed 100+ rats last year with my traps and none of them suffered any damage. Could the ones in the photo have been damaged by scavengers disturbing the tunnels?

Why aren’t my traps wounding predators? Weird.

Please continue the thread.

[willowflat_warrior]

Count me in. The more information shared, the better.

[mindie]

Great to hear from you WFW – I have found that GN chocolate lure has not been as effective as other lures - today we have switched about 40 rat traps from GN possum paste to GN meat lovers – it will be interesting to see if there is any response. Rat numbers are low - today we found six traps tripped – but no victims – one had its coreflute cover ripped of the tree so maybe a large animal involved.
Great that your T Rex traps are working well for you - trap design and plastics evolve – they no doubt improve if they get reports of breakages or soft catches. A few years ago, I did a season on a line at Puketoki Reserve – they use walk through boxes with a central T Rex trap so animals enter the trap from either side. I had a chat to the Puketoki controller today and he tells me that traps rarely break, and wounded animals are few – so this matches your experience.
While working in the Park today, I met a lady who was having problems with rats on a lifestyle block – traps in a shed and under the house not killing rats – T Rex! – so she took a picture of the spare Kness Snap-E I carry in my pack.
The picture below is of a walk through box with a central Gorilla trap – difficult to place the trap while set and the last bump often tripped it – black nails so I dislike Gorillas intensely! The Trex is much easier to place and works well. Also a picture of the cover ripped off a trap today – I like open covers.
Let me know if I am boring people.

[andrea_shepherd]

Keen to be involved. I’ve noticed too that one bait someone raves over in a bush block or farmland is useless in sub alpine so if the study could include type of landscape plus altitude please that would make it even more useful.

[willowflat_warrior]

With a whole sachet of the chocolate and nut lures, I trapped maybe 10 rats. The Meat Lovers’ lure is one of my go-to lures, because I’ve had such good results with it.

Goodnature’s Cinnamon Possum lure has actually trapped a decent number of rats - I’d say its trapping rate is 5x better than the chocolate and nut lures, so it’s worth a try, IMO. I use it 3-4 times a year as a “curiosity lure”, to pique the interest of rats that might be bored with what’s normally on offer. I was surprised to find that it was a successful lure for a pair of weasels that I trapped within the same week in December.

It would be interesting to find out how the chocolate lure performs in habitats occupied by humans vs the wild. If rats have already eaten chocolate out of somebody’s garbage, I think that they are likely to develop a taste for it. Under those circumstances, the chocolate lure could be way more attractive to rats, mimicking a delicacy.

I prefer the T-Rex over other snap-traps for a number of reasons. I don’t only use the T-Rex, though, because I’ve had way better results since I started using a variety of traps. If I only used DOC tunnels or snap-traps, my rat kills would drop by about 50%. I think that the reason why using multiple models is effective (for me, at least), is that rats that become really good at eating the bait out of a T-Rex, might not be as good at eating out of a Kness/Gorilla, for example. If a rat’s able to eat the lures out of the T-Rex and Kness/Gorilla without getting killed, it might slip up when it encounters a Victor Pro.

Often when inexperienced trappers are having difficulty killing rats, the trap(s) aren’t to blame. Was the T-Rex in a tunnel or was it sitting on the ground? Was it sited properly? Was she using good lures? Was she checking the trap frequently?
Switching to a Kness won’t make any difference if she doesn’t learn to use her traps properly. Your advice should turn her T-Rex into a killing machine (if she didn’t get rid of it, that is).

I, too, have ended up with purple fingers for a while after accidentally setting traps off.
The T-Rex is the worst of the lot, because the teeth add skin injuries to the bruises. My fingers can definitely tell which trap is the strongest and has the best grip.

Recently, I ordered a pair of snap-trap double-sets for Gorilla traps. TR’s don’t work in the tunnels, unfortunately, but Kness and Gorilla traps are held in place.
Alert 365 - Double Rat Trap Tunnel | Connovation NZ
DOC double-sets have much higher trapping rates than single-sets, so I’m interested to find out if snap-trap double-sets also perform better than single-sets.

The main reason why I bought them, is that there are some good sites that it would be difficult to get DOC double-sets to and I doubt that I would be able to get them to sit on the ground evenly, because there are a lot of rocks and exposed roots to deal with. The 365’s will go almost anywhere.

If you can find it, I highly recommend trying tallow in your traps. Just be careful using it, because some bird species are fans of the stuff.

You aren’t boring me! I wouldn’t reply to your posts if I wasn’t interested in what you have to write. The more that trappers communicate with each other, the better our collective results will be, in my opinion.

Knock 'em dead, Mindie!

Cheers.

[greenglass]

Hi Dan. If you don’t like the idea of carrying a firearm around, even an air rifle, they can get heavy if you’re carrying them all day. I use a lance ( a 20cm stiletto blade attached to the end of a converted golf putter) it even doubles as a walking pole. It will dispatch any animal you live capture. I use a forked stick behind the shoulders or neck to hold the animal still while you say goodbye.

[mindie]

Cats, hedgehogs and rats – they all leave a trail behind them. Some have a large home range but its often worth putting out a cage or a trap. I had a few “neighborhood

” hogs around my 1-acre garden - a magpie trap worked well, and I cleaned out 20 in a few months. At least hogs are on the PFBOP hit list.

[davidnblake36]

I really like Kness Big Snap E’s as well. Pity they’re not NAWAC tested.

Where do you get those green tunnels?