Hi yes correct about bending the tip of the trigger arm. I did write an info sheet on treadle plates which is in the Tip and Tricks section
1 Like
Awesome @dave_e! Have just read your cheat sheet. Very useful and well written.
That’s exactly what I have been doing except using the handle of a hammer as my ‘tube’.
Hi one other thing comes to mind, if people try putting any sort of covering on the treadle plate, rubber, cloth etc then maybe it would be a good idea to take the covers and burry them in damp leaf litter or even fine soil for a few days to help them become part of the environment
great that people are trying things, Long ago I came to the conclusion that if we wait for the powers higher up to come up with worthwhile incremental improvements we will never get anywhere
have a good day
1 Like
Neoprene in the treadle… Um, I am not convinced it is the answer. I went back after a week and checked some traps and to add a few luregards [with tallow inside them]. One of the traps with the neoprene on the treadle, well the neoprene had blown back off the treadle and had now created a closed door effect to mate stoat getting on the treadle and also seeing the lure. We will give it a few more months and see what happens…
1 Like
Hi if you have been following this conversation it might be worth checking out what I have just posted in the Tips and Tricks section cheers
1 Like
Hey Dave, thanks very much for the post in tips and tricks.
I am convinced of the benefit of both a ramp and covering of the treadle. On un-modified traps I have recorded numerous mice leaping onto the treadle arm rather than walking across the treadle to get to the lure. And as mentioned previously I have had issues with hedgehogs refusing to cross the bare treadle.
I have one fully modified DOC200 (raised floor, flat treadle, and thin ply on the treadle) and have experienced zero refusal, of a good number of hedgehogs, to cross the treadle. I have a camera on this trap 24/7. Have only had one rat visit and that did not hesitate to cross the treadle either.
The treadle ply is untreated 2mm hobby ply from Spotlight and is proving very durable.
See photo of trap in previous posts on this thread.
The link to @dave_e’s post mentioned above: Ramps for DOC Traps and covering Treadle Plates - Tips and Tricks from other trap.nz users - TRAP.NZ Forums
Another hedgehog in the modified DOC200. That’s 4 hedgehogs and a ship rat in two weeks in that trap.
With the camera recording everything, I have seen there has been zero hesitation in the pests crossing the ply-covered treadle, from the plywood steps. This is in contrast to my observations with unmodified DOC boxes/treadles.
I will be modifying all my DOC boxes in the same manner, having tested the modifications with excellent success for over 6 months.
3 Likes
Hi Great work, I hope this gets others thinking outside the Box, all logical thinking really
It would be great if DOC Landcare could replicate in Pen Trials and peer review some of what is going and possibly give it an endorsement but looks like they have their own internal issues to deal with
keep up the good work
1 Like
Another ship rat in the modified DOC200. On the 8th visit that night by the same rat! It was uber-cautious and only went fully into the box on its 4th visit.
The camera has been invaluable, being able to see 100% conversion of pest visitors to kills.
I had a lot of lure of various types on the safe side. Once it’s preferred lure had gone it walked across the treadle.
It is a shippy with a damaged tail.
3 Likes
First of 8 visits, less than 2 hours before it’s 8th and final visit. Notice it stretching to eat lure just inside the box, even stretching forward on it’s ‘toes’.
2 Likes
Hi Warren
I was trolling around in some old DOC publications interesting the first DOC trap which was the 180 had a Black covering on the Treadle Plate, it never passed NAWAC so was beefed up to a 200 which just had a bare metal Treadle. the format photo is in I can’t copy and paste it here
I’m working on a 200 trap upgrade for a project all doc 250’s and have decided to put the fabric type Duct tape Black on the Treadle Plates, the Fabric one is good as easy to tear, and a light rub with a pot scourer takes the shine off
cheers
1 Like
Hey Dave, you’re a wealth of interesting information!
Please keep us posted on the tape-covered treadle DOC250 project.
Will you also have ramps installed in those 200 traps? Ta.
1 Like
Hi Yes Ramps have been standard for about 4 years
1 Like
I think that to make the rat or stoat to cross he treadle, you have to offer them a bait that they can’t resist,. so you prefeedl them in the entrance foyer with some peanut butter/nutella mixture and apply a heavier dose on a strip of aluminum laid on the far side of the treadle plate. When I say Nutella, I use Woolworths choc hazel. It’s cheaper. Mix it about 50/50 with peanut butter. You’ll find that just about every kind of critter out there loves it.
Hi the subject has been well covered in other threads but caution is needed when pre feeding in the entrance, one has to think about the chances of inviting non targets like Robins, Kiwi, Weka etc into your Trap, as people have found out when using the pre feed practice it’s not very nice to catch a robin in your trap. Like you say " every critter loves it"
“I’d be interested to know what the temperature difference is between the ply/timber base of the tunnel, the ply on the treadle, and the exposed treadle on a cold night.”
The temperature difference will be zero at almost every moment of the night - even if the trap starts the night being at ambient temperature (lets say 8 degrees) and the box has been in the sun (lets say a toasty 18 degrees), as soon as the sun is not a factor, all parts of the environment will rapidly converge to ambient temperature*.
Some things in the environment will take longer to reach ambient temperature, as any hunter with a thermal will know; rocks that have been in the sun, dead trees and other timber like fence posts, will retain that heat for longer and take longer to reach the equilibrium, but all things will approach the environmental average temperature. The same rocks that were hot just after sunset will be the same temperature as the grass and trees by 5am unless they are absolutely massive in comparison.
The thing that is different about metal is its thermal conductivity* - it “wicks away” the warmth of your fingers quickly compared to a more insulative material like wood or dry grass. This makes a big difference if you press a hot thing (like your hand or backside) against a cold thing that is very conductive (grab a metal pole, sit on wet grass, hold a can of soft drink)
This is an important dynamic to understand - a metal flag pole, and a polar fleece glove, will be the exact same temperature if left in the same environment for a few minutes - even if its minus 10. The reason that the glove feels warm as soon as you put it on, and the pole feels freezing cold when you grab it with a bare hand, is that the glove rapidly warms to your hand’s temperature with very little energy added, while the metal pole will steal a lot of energy from your hand before it warms to the same as your body temp (if it ever does). This is also the root of the phenomenon where wind chill “feels like” a different (lower) temperature than the actual air temp - its because the wind is wicking away energy from you at a fast rate, so fast that it ‘feels like’ the same experience of a much lower temperature with no wind.
Animals are used to this, and have adaptations to suit - dogs walk/work in snow all day pulling sleds but their paws are thick and insulated to suit this. I would be very surprised if a well conducted experiment found that rats objected to the conductivity of the metal, and not the materials tactile properties. Thermal properties are part of tactile properties, but my feeling is that texture, hardness, and friction, would play a larger role. Rats have no hesitation to walking on cold stones or cold wet ground, or jumping into cold water. Setting up an experiment would be hard - finding two materials that have high and low thermal conductivity but the same tactile properties would be difficult. Black HDPE and black stainless might be a good comparison.
** There is another minor factor here from more advanced physics; emissivity - the rate at which objects radiate energy to the cold night sky. This is so interesting that you could spend a few hours learning how some people who live/lived in deserts could make ice even when the ambient temperature is above freezing Radiative cooling - Wikipedia The relevance to traps though is minor but geeky 
2 Likes
Hi I agree that the situation is potentially complex, but the fact remains that as mentioned above even in NAWAC testing for whatever reason a portion of animals will not move across the steel Treadle Plate
If it is Cold or the bright color or Texture nobody knows but unless people try stuff we will never know.
I first came across it in 2017 when developing my possum baffles for Philproof in a UK paper they found by accident that Rats in the Lab were reluctant to move from a natural surface to steel bench but they never followed up to why.
I still think it is an easy Pen trial for the likes of Landcare but I find out it has been known for years and not taken any further so with the reduction in trials that can have a practical application I doubt if it will ever happen.
The Poms who have a heap of experiance have a different take they try to reduce the bright color and put a bit of texture on the plate
https://www.gwct.org.uk/media/1138659/hints-and-tips-for-using-doc-traps-in-the-uk-2024.pdf
20 years ago when we use Fenn Traps it was common best practice to sprinkle a bit of fine leaf litter on the Treadle plate.
personally I think it’s great that a few people have noted the issue and trying things to improve their trapping results which they can share with other who may want to give it a go
I think it’s safe to say that there are numerous factors at play here!
Like a lot of our trapping, there are few certainties. Lure preference, trap placement, trap design/materials, etc, etc, etc. The only certainty is that sitting at home and not making an effort will mean no pests removed.
Just a quick observation - I have recorded mice leaping from the plywood trap entrance, to the treadle arm, to the plywood rear, and then repeating it in reverse. Very effectively minimising contact with the metal treadle.
Whether the mice feel the treadle is too cold, too shiny, too slippery, or just too foreign could be considered somewhat irrelevant. It has been observed the pests ‘dislike’ the treadle bare. And observations show a covered treadle reduce that ‘dislike’ significantly.
W.
Hi Warren I fully agree, In my engineering work I got paid to find solutions and make them work, the science is interesting but a practical solution is what is required.
Like I have said before I think a Pen trial is simple, they don’t even have to kill any animals, Try multiple options and see what works best. Probably the most complex part is coming up with simple practical options to improve Treadle Plate acceptance by animals
1 Like