DOC traps, what is the hard bit?

I have not been able to find anything on this subject , apologies if it has been mentioned before…

I always thought the hard bit was getting the animal in the trap box and after that it was a formality it would cross the treadle and get the bad news. .
After seeing game camera footage of animals going in and COMING OUT I am convinced that getting the target in the entry end of the trap box is fairly easy, the hard bit is getting it to cross the treadle. So how are we combating the “I aint going across that big steel plate”. We are elevating the floor in steps at the entry end of a 150/200 box so that the floor is now level with the treadle which also has a bit of thin ply pop rivetted or silicone glued on the treadle. I remember seeing a Cam Speedy video of a cat touching the rim of a no.1 leg hold trap and retracting its foot so fast… it just didnt like the steel I guess ?

Thoughts / comments please

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@kjs - let us know how your steps/bridge go!

For thread completeness, I’ll just mention that the first thing I’d do if I saw animals coming out of the trap box alive would be a full trap maintenance to make sure everything is working correctly. In particular, I’d check that the calibration weight of the trap isn’t too high and that there is no debris anywhere around the mechanism that might be preventing it from firing. It’s apparently also a common maintenance issue for the middle baffle (wire mesh) to be put in back to front after cleaning, allowing animals to walk behind the trap and not across the treadle.

Otherwise, I’ve heard various suggestions for ways to create a good scent trail into the box and across the plate. Rubbing a fresh dead animal of either the target species (e.g. weasel or stoat) or a favoured prey species (mouse or rat) on the trap is supposed to be very effective. Other trappers have suggested putting something light but strongly scented (like poopy chook feathers) on the plate, or dabbing little bits of lure paste across the treadle. I haven’t had a chance to really test these ideas out myself though.

I’m sure there were some recent posts on DOC-trap-related subjects, but I haven’t yet hit on the correct keywords to find the links. Hopefully the original post-writers will share again :smile:

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Traps have been perfectly calibrated and perfectly maintained.

The thing that got me thinking about the animals interaction with steel was the Cam Speedy video of the cat and the no.1 leg hold trap, but my mate recorded a domestic cat going into a wire mesh floor cage trap… My mate disguised the floor with bits of moss and has very clear video evidence of this domestic cat walking from one piece of moss to the next bit… completely avoiding touching the steel mesh floor. Remember this is a domestic cat, you gotta ask yourself how much more wary is a feral ?

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Hi this is a long standing problem that has been put in the tooo hard basket, you can check my sheet in tips and tricks on treadle plates and mesh but the problem goes way deeper.
I do a heap of research and developed things like the possum baffles that Philproof now sell. I used Plastic for those as in some UK Lab research ship rats were reluctant to move from a natural surface to a steel one, probably air con in the Lab.
In NAWAC testing they only give you the good stuff, but when I got hold on the full details 14% of rats were not caught in DOC style 200 traps. One of the research people told me it was a real problem they had videos of rats touching the plates and changing their mind.
I did try a couple of things like putting Duck Tape on a treadle and checking temp difference with mechanic temp gun different to touch but same temp.
Somewhere in the forums you will find a bloke who puts his mesh in upside down so that the animal drops down onto the treadle plate and it is too late animal is dead.
One group I’m helping sort out some problems indications are catch rates have reduced since changing from Conibear traps with a wire trigger to DOC 200.
I swap research etc with Cam and sent him some links to Australian pro trappers for feral Dogs who go to great lengths to cover up treadle plates and also reduce temp difference.
Back in the old days when we used Fenn Traps they were great because you could dig a shallow hole so the trap was at ground level and we would sprinkle a bit of fine leaf litter on the treadle plate

There are a range of similar problems out there that everyone has put in the too hard basket. Sorry I don’t have a real answer I think a better Trap is an option but the barriers to that are huge.
I brought up some of these problems with 2050 only to be dismissed as they only wanted high tech and not simple things like a better $40 trap,

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Thanks Dave_e , its not a solution but its a damn good answer which gives me a bit to think about and 99% confirms the cold steel treadle is causing the reluctance. . My most successful bait has been a handful of duck feathers spread over the treadle but eventually they get wet and affect the treadle operating successfully. I have thought of a duck wing spread out with the secondary feathers covering the treadle, rubber banded somehow ?? Fresh rabbit skin rubber banded to the treadle but that may be like the duck feathers ? Cheers K

Hi one problem I had when playing around in the workshop was finding something that was not too heavy
a couple of ideas that I never got any further with but will try were a thin inner tube from motorbike, mountain bike will not stretch enough. I did get a section of trampoline cloth that someone was throwing out with the idea of just putting a bit on top of the treadle.
Even what said before of Black Duct tape I only use one layer , while it did not reduce temp it did feel different to touch and might just be enough, and it is durable for when an animal gets squashed on it

raining again tomorrow so I will have another play around
good luck

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Kjs knows this story, but early last year I spent around two weeks trying to catch one individual hedgehog. My trailcam was set up watching this trap (DOC200 with hedgehog-sized entrance and baffle holes) the whole time.

Initially the hedgehog wouldn’t even enter the trap box, happily eating the lure outside it and at the entrance. After a few days it went into the box, eating all the lure right up to the treadle but not attempting to cross it. This went on for around 1.5 weeks. It was super frustrating. Guessing the treadle was off-putting I layered it with fresh tree fern fronds. This did the trick.

I can only imagine that a pest eyeballing the metal treadle, while standing on wood, would think twice. So that’s why kjs and I have been building stepped ply floors raising the floor level around 30mm which is the approximate height of a set treadle. Then going one step further and adding ply to the treadle surface - 2mm hobby ply in my case.

Our testing is in it’s infancy. We can’t see it reducing catches, but are hoping, obviously, that it increases catches of the most cautious pests.

Like kjs said, it would be great to hear people’s thoughts. Also, if others think this may be a good idea, please give it a go so there is more testing done.

I use 12mm ply, stepping up to 18mm ply butted up against the internal baffle, for a total height gain of 30mm. I raise the height of the hole in the internal baffle correspondingly. I silicone 2mm hobby ply (sourced from Spotlight) to the treadle which seems to be quite durable so far. I have already caught a number of hedgehogs in my test trap. I don’t trap in an area containing mustelids which is why it would be good for others to give it a go.

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Ramps
I’ve had ramps in my DOC tunnels for about 5 years, using rectangular pieces of scrap timber. The kiwi conservancy nearby recommended using them, and they’ve worked really well. I highly recommend adding ramps to your DOC tunnels.

When I’ve used scraps of hard wood (like Matai or Kwila) for ramps, some rats have sharpened their teeth on them. Rat saliva is one of the most potent natural lures for rats (according to a rat behaviour study that I read several years ago), because the smell of another rat’s saliva signals the presence of food that’s safe to eat. Saliva on a ramp might not encourage rats to enter a tunnel, but it should be a good way to lure them to entrances.

Treadles
The main way that I disguise my treadles, is to leave them dirty once the trap has seen some action. Over time, fur, blood, and the remnants of carcasses accumulates, disguising the metal. This is only a thin, light layer that only weighs a few grams, not big chunks of fur. If a treadle needs a tidy up, I use a metal scraper to remove some.

With a brand-new DOC trap, I sprinkle some soil onto the treadle and/or some forest floor debris, like leaves or moss. If the treadle looks and smells like the forest floor, predators should be more comfortable crossing it. I don’t use things that could interfere with treadles, like medium/large feathers, bark and twigs. Another option is to apply 1 or 2 layers of dead leaves that are damp onto a treadle, because they can stick like wallpaper when they dry out. Mahoe leaves work well, because they’re nice and flat, with small stems. Larger, leathery leaves probably won’t stick (Karaka, for example).

I like the idea of using small fern fronds, because they should be easy to remove when they’ve seen too much action, if part of the stalk is attached. A small pair of scissors or a knife would let you shape fronds to size. I’m definitely going to try this when I buy a new trap.

Another natural cover to try would be the fine foliage of Manuka/Kanuka at the end of small stems. Kanuka has softer foliage and stems than Manuka, so that’s what I’d use.

I had contemplated painting the treadles of my traps a matte brown but thought better of it. It would take a lot of time (and money!) to paint them, and I was concerned that the smell of the paint might deter predators.

Regarding cold treadles, a DOC trap could, in theory, be made that has a small in-built heater powered by a battery and/or solar panels, but I’d imagine that this would be both difficult and expensive.

Good luck trapping, everybody.

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@dave_e when you tried your tape experiment, did you try electrical tape as well? It occurred to me that if electrical tape is non-conductive for electricity, it might have some thermal insulation properties too. If it can block the transfer of heat from the animal’s feet to the metal, it ought to be perceived as ‘warmer’.

Hi yes I did try electrical tape basically the same as Duct Tape it was winter when I played around with the idea, same temp but as I mentioned for me anyway it was different to touch than the steel treadle

I did have another play around today and tried an old motorbike inner tube and slide that over the entire Treadle, looked good but hit a snap because with the fold on sides of treadle the inner tube hung down a bit and sometimes the trap would not go off, also 30 grams so starting to get to the point of being too much.
Attached are two photos of the other tape idea this is wide electrical tape as I didn’t have any Black Duct tape at home again it feels different to the touch, I did not wind the tape around the treadle as it would have caused the same binding underneath as the inner tube did. one layer of Duct tape would be 2.25 grams so even using a double layer would only be 5 grams so not a problem with trip weight, and as already suggested by willowflat you can rub a bit of dirt on the tape;
I have worked on other more difficult ideas to make, I made some tunnels/boxes with no floor and 200 traps sat in the ground like we did with the Fenn’s and sprinkled a bit of fine leaf litter on the treadle,
so you had a nice dirt floor leading up to the trap. and treadle plate is level with the ground and the whole tunnel is run through. Next to NO interest so the design never went anywhere


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@willowflat_warrior great to hear the raised floor/ramp has worked well for you for some time!

Regarding treadles, kjs has used feathers and this has worked well for him on mustelids. But as he said they can blow around which isn’t ideal.

Most of my treadles are filthy. Sometimes I can’t check my traps frequently so there is always a rat or hedgehog rotting on the treadle! However I haven’t found a filthy treadle to perform much better than a new, clean treadle.

I believe, as dave_e talks about, the temperature differential of the treadle vs ply can be off-putting for wary pests. While a filthy treadle will disguise the texture and how it looks, it will do little to change the felt temperature. That’s why I use ply on the treadle. It looks the same as what the pest has already walked over, has the same texture, and importantly, is roughly the same temperature.

BTW @willowflat_warrior thanks for the tip regarding tallow/dripping, it is my new favourite lure!

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Hi I mentioned 14% of rats in some NAWAC testing were not caught, in some non NAWAC testing ZIP had a heap of rats not caught so there retested with a std DOC doc box to compare to their own design, this what happened,

with the support of the Department of Conservation, in late-August to mid-November 2018, we [undertook a trial to assess the animal welfare performance for ship rats of the standard DOC200 in a standard wooden Haines box.

Of the 32 rats tested in that trial, over the 60-minute period that each animal was tested for, 37% of the animals interacted with the trap but were not caught by it! That is, they either sprung the trap but escaped without being hit, or entered the box, tested the treadle and then exited the box without springing the trap. These results demonstrate how cautious ship rats can be. That’s not to suggest that these animals would never be caught

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I’d be interested to know what the temperature difference is between the ply/timber base of the tunnel, the ply on the treadle, and the exposed treadle on a cold night.

I’m glad to hear that you’ve been having success with the fat. I hope that there are a decent number of people trying it, because it’s a killer. At the risk of tooting my own horn, I think that there would be a considerable spike in kills nationwide if trappers put the peanut butter away for a few weeks and tried tallow/dripping.

Cheers.

Hi one more comment I think the ply is a great idea as long as it does not add too much weight to the treadle. also when after stoats etc I would be reluctant to fixing it in place with silicon which has a highly chemical smell, all animals have better senses that use humans so even when it is set probably still smells to a stoat, Maybe even some thing simpler like heavy material off an old pair of jeans laid over the treadle and down the side might be good enough and easy to dispose off, might even hold some interesting scent when you do catch an animal or you could even rub some scent into the material.
As I said before I find it disappointing that this problem has been noted by research people so many years ago but they put in in the to hard or not my job basket, would not have taken much 2050 money to come up with some solutions to this and other simple problems out there
happy trapping
Dave

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@dave_e the ply I added is only 2mm thick and is very light. The trap was calibrated, pre fitting the ply, at 85gm. After ply fitted it only just triggered at 80gm. I re-calibrated it.

Regarding the silicone, I too was worried about that. But I wondered if the glue in the plywood that the DOC box is made of doesn’t put pests off then maybe the silicone wouldn’t? I also used neutral cure silicone and only the thinnest smear of it to just hold the ply in place.

But, heavy denim would probably be good too! It would be good for others to try different approaches.

I don’t have mustelids in my main place of trapping, just hedgehogs, rats, possums, and mice. So I can’t really say if it would put stoats off unfortunately.

I can sense and understand your frustration.

Hi I think it is great that you are trying things, just a thought but seeing as it is thin maybe the ply could be held in place with a couple of paper clips on the inner side of treadle where there is no rolled edge, one each side of the treadle arm, but I don’t know if the ply would sit flat, same could apply to the denim or similar covering, paper clips would be away from where the animal enters.

cheers and keep up the good work

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