I belong to two trapping groups who have 400 x A24 Goodnature traps between them .We have had some issues with traps leaking co2 or the thread coming out as the cartridge is replaced and have returned them to Goodnature for repair. I have just been told the repairs will only be done on traps under two years old. We are fully prepared to pay for the service/repair.
I was under the impression they had a life of up to five years. My expectation was them remaining useable up to that age at least. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
I think a DIY method of servicing was addressed in this thread:Generic gas canisters for A24 Goodnature traps
Thanks danbush, Im hoping someone starts knocking out service kits and instructions for these traps or provides that service as GN doesnt. I suspect it might be a popular thing given the 1000s of A24s out there. Failure before 5 years should be covered under the Comsumers guarantee act of reasonable expectation of a product.
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I am not a lawyer, but I agree with your reference to the Consumer Guarantees Act, I think five years would be a more reasonable expectation. What a great idea for a small business…could be something a teenager did to earn nice bit of pocket money.
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…sorry additional thoughts…I am not personally totally convinced by the effectiveness of A24s after the initial knockdown phase. Independent evidence would be useful. But as you say, there are thousands of units out there. The question I have is how could they be re-jigged to do a better job? The basic mechanism and engineering is excellent, so rather than chuck them away (expensive and wasteful) how could they be improved?
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I’m part of a group who traps 7500 Ha of conservation land, using over 700 DOC180-200-250 and probably just as many A24s. “My” line has 22 A24s on it, and I take my own notes when I service it. I know it’s a small sample size and I may never get enough events to have good power to my observations, but… it is what it is.
I noticed many traps with no gas when I service them (my worse day was 7/22). Sometimes I have traps “leak” twice in a row, and if it happens thrice I replace them. But more often than not there is no pattern and a leaky trap one time won’t have leaked the next time. So it makes me doubtful that it’s something wrong with the trap’s seal or mechanism…
The area those traps are is is heavily trapped, and we have also had 1080 drops in recent years, so I suspect predator numbers are low, and that the traps are not activated 24 times in 6 months. This is true leakage in my opinion. I once had a trailcam on one of my traps for 5 months. It only recorded a dozen or so rat visits, and no kills.
I also started experimenting with the generic gas, and so far they are not causing me any more leaky traps than the branded gas did.
What I do now is I make extra sure I tighten the gas well. This can be tricky in wet weather with wet and cold hands, especially towards the end of the line when they become greasy with lure. I seem to be getting less leaks now, but I still get a few.
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Thanks, that’s great information. My own experience is that gas cylinders will empty over about 2-3 months. I don’t think that reflects almost any kills in my case. Speaking as engineer, I guess one could not expect any gas system to be without leaks, especially one reliant on an o-ring seal and an imprecisely machined gas cylinder. There are better ways of attaching a gas cylinder which would be far more effective, but also much more expensive to manufacture. I also thought this reference was interesting. O-ring seals for CO2
“Carbon dioxide often presents an issue for many types of o-rings, as softer materials have a tendency to absorb the gas over time and swell up. This can lead to an unreliable seal in the short term, and over time the CO2 will actually cause the o-ring to start to break down from within.”
“Some popular choices for use in applications where the o-ring will have extended CO2 contact include polyurethane, PTFE, nitrile, and fluoroelastomers. However, the best choice will always depend on the consideration of other environmental or application factors.”
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Check out the Fairgo story known issue August 2022. I would look at Consumer guarantee’s act. Fair Go: Wellington trapper frustrated by misfiring traps
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I look after 50 A24s around Wellington.
Agree with the consumer guarantees act comments. I would actually argue for 10 years being a reasonable life time for a A24. Assuming they are watertight and not overexposed to UV there should not be any noticeable deterioration in the hardware parts of the trap.
Degassing within 3-4months is not really acceptable within the lifetime of the trap. When initially released Goodnature advised not to overtighten canisters (in fact to it up and then back it off slightly). Canisters were also supposed to have silicone grease on the thread. I have not seen any sign of the latter with goodnature branded canisters. With original A12s I did ocassionally screw out the whole brass gas thread. I put this down to overtightening. It has not happened to me in the last 3 or 4 years.
I have noticed the old white orings look discloured and compressed after a season or two. I tried replacing one with a recommended Nitrile oring (see discussion on another thread) but it was the wrong size and did not work. If the oring is part of the degassing problem replacement parts should be readily available along with recommended means to replace it (it is not easy!). You should not have to bring out and redeploy traps to replace such a simple part. And maybe different orings should be used depending on the prevailing climate.
If it is none of those issues then I think it may be the internal diaphragm within the gas chamber. There seems plenty of scope for this part to shrink or expand in the wrong conditions. Or it may just be leaky because of poor design?
We need another whole thread on lure and animal behaviour issues!
These issues and no transparent fixes for them ( bringing them in for a service is not practical for many and does not help share knowledge of how to fix the traps) seems to have lead to a growing number of users losing faith in A24s. Ive heard the same doubts from backyard trappers, professional landscape scale project managers, and community trapping groups. That’s a real shame. With other self setting traps in the market now, maybe competition will mean a rethink of design, product stewardship ( ie. Owner maintenance) and more sustainable consumables (ALPs create a lot of waste incl battery, magnet, foil and a left over lure).
The A24 has alot of things going for it, but it would be great to see some tweaks to realize its full potential.
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Thanks Sarah, I contacted the trapper who brought the issue to fair go and he was very helpful. I think I will see who else comments before I share my findings as I think there are a lot of larger users of these traps about to come to the time they need the traps serviced .
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These traps are a really good idea, but never quite worked as well as hoped in the field. The can kill rats, but you can observe (via camera) that many rats just won’t go right into them.
And yeah they leak etc. If someone could take the idea and improve it somehow, it could be a really really good trap.
Maybe the Boffa Miskell AI powered one is the next evolution? I assume it’s gas powered…
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I think it is a lethal Taser.
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all good Neil I know him well - everyone just wants a reliable resetting trap - when they work they are great.
I can’t believe GN will only repair their traps under 2 years old, but any repairs would have to be pretty quick otherwise their charges would exceed the value of a second-hand trap. I posted about the O ring I used in our older GN A24 trap, and that Blackwoods O ring 00986857 is still working OK. Maybe there are other versions of the seal? We’re not catching any rats though, maybe the odd mouse, and I suspect it’s because we have it mounted vertical as per instructions, when we should be trying the 45 degree new mounting kit. Just as we’ve seen locally with the AT220, the Trapinator, the Flipping Timmy, when used vertically we don’t get the possum response we should expect, because pests aren’t that keen on poking their head directly upwards into a trap. A 45 degree mounting angle and ramp to the trap should help.
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We have around 600 A 24’s, they have been in use for 3-4 years, but are giving increasing problems as mentioned. There is also the cost, initially we had funding from the DOC Community Conservation fund, which is not available now. So, at the moment we are very seriously looking at moving away from the A24’s and going for bait stations, more work but hopefully (if articles are correct) giving better results.
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I have a similar problem with my A12 possum trap where as soon as I screw in teh gas cartridge it escapes out through the top in a few mins. Its not leaking around threads though. I took apart as last resort & there is a hole in indented part of rubber diaphragm & wasn’t sure it was supposed to be there or not. It was an unused trap so no wear & tear beforehand or anything like that. Any advice by chance thanks?
The advice previously on O rings might be helpful. The A12 has the same engineering issue as the A24, gas leaking, which has never been fixed, so good luck there. My advice, cut your losses, get a couple of Possum kill traps which will get just as many for 1/4 the price . If you really want to get into rats and possums get an AT220. It is streets ahead , of anything else in servicing costs and performance .
Thanks Neil. I’d already tried the o-ring thing as well with no luck. I think teh leak was farther upstream. Yeah I’ve pretty much given up on it…just took a last shot
My issue with the A25 is with the paste oozing out too quickly. The blurb says they last up to 6 months but mine wouldn’t last 6 weeks. I would find dollops of the stuff on the ground.
I contacted Goodnature but was disappointed that they showed no interesting in addressing the issue. At $11.50 per pack it’s not a cost I’m willing to carry on with.
Hi, We have 140 x A24s and just squirt bait from a GN pouch or other baits into the ALP instead of replacing it. Seems to work and doesnt drip out . It retains enough in the creases of the ALP to attract the 4-5 rats per year we average in these traps. We also spread it around the entry to the trap and down the tree. We are now using wool carpet strips stapled down the tree and push the fresh bait into that as a longer term attractant.
Goodnature also have a mesh bucket that goes into the bait cup which you can then put your own bait into.
We also use beer charger CO2 cartridges, (threaded 16g from online suppliers ) and at $1.75 each they get servicing each A24 down from $19.00 to less than $2 . Pays to use the GN cartridges until the trap warranty is over . Good Luck.
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